New mould

[straw]

 I am pleased to report that the new EC12 mould is now 50% paid for and is currently under construction in Bob Dudinski's workshop in Florida. We anticipate that delivery will be made sometime late August early September and that new hulls will be available sometime shortly thereafter.We are grateful to all those members who have so generously donated cash to this cause and would welcome any additional funds that any member who has not donated , would care to make. We are not home free yet and there is still some little way to go to raise the remaining funds necessary to complete the purchase, so please dig deep as it all helps.

We have a new owner up here in QLD in Edi Mian who has purchased our long time interested friend Steve Crewes' old Sorrenson boat that was owned by Rob O'Brien from Victoriua. She looks a treat and I am attaching my email address (straw@focusqld.com) for anyone wishing to see photos of the finished product.

I am also gratified to report renewed interest is coming through from NSW from older members who are renewing their interest in the class after having been disallusioned in the past due to all the unhelpful petty infighting that once took place in that jurisdiction. It has been a matter of considerable disappointment that so many key EC12 sailors in that state have seen fit to turn their backs on the class since the initiative to form the new owners association. However it is gratifying to see these owners who have had their boats in mothballs all these years, now seriously considering getting their clubs to start sailing the boats again. I applaud all those men involved and offer all the assistance that we here in QLD can provide. All you need do is ask. As for the rest of the EC12 owners in NSW who have chosen not to become involved and join the association....well we can but hope that they will reconsider in due course and join our ranks, at least the ones that are serious.

So in conclusion I am happy to say that we are proceding to the situaton envisioned in the plan as it was outlined in the referendum. All the components are starting to come together and we are already seeing the fruits of this in the class starting to grow here in QLD  with numerous enquiries being made as to availability of the new boats that will soon be available as well as the renewed interest from some of our hitherto lost southern cousins. I will endeavour to keep all informed as developments evolve.

Straw

[ec12nz]

Straw - another development for you to consider is the US shaped ballast that drops into these hulls. I have on the way to NZ right now a plaster plug taken from a current ballast mold. Once we have made our new mold you are welcome to obtain this plug from me as well.

Cheers

[straw]

Thanks very much Chris, it is something that I have been contemplating about what to do. The only thing that we need to do is work out

a) all up weight and where in the boat is the lead best placed to provide optimum trim (I am not talking about waterline length here as we are moving to an exclusive weight based rule only).

b) the ability to make sure that this aspect of the boat does not become bastardized in that lead is going to be able to be taken in and out of boats at will or different ballast weight used to optimize the boats for the conditions prevailing and also the possibility of doing this during a regatta. This is tantamount to cheating in my opinion and we will not be entertaining a ballast policy that allows this to happen in Australia. Existing older boats that we have grandfathered must be protected and maintained as competitive as we can make them notwithstanding the limitations of the construction methods and materials that were prevailing at the time when those boats were constructed. It is true that it is posible to get the old ballasts out but not without a lot of mucking around and resultant cosmetic damage to some hulls during the removal process. This ofcourse is easily repaired but the owner has to go through this possibility. Still I think the effort to fit a new concept ballast to improve the boat and its competitiveness is worth the effort. We just need to make sure that what we are replacing is is right.

Chris I will ring you tonight on this to get more detail if that is OK?

Straw

[ec12nz]

Straw - hopefully you see this before to late - out tonight - best is Sunday and I can phone u for no cost from here - email me directly your home number and we can sort out the details.

Cheers

[ROD LIDDY]

Hi Peter

My take on the issue of ballasting in EC12's is this, in New Zealand & USA we both have within our respective Class Rules VERY clearly defined and marked waterline measurements requiring our boats to float fully rigged within these parameters in order to be compliant with Class Rules. Following successfull measurement for compliance then a Measurement Certificate is issued. NZ Class Rule 4.2.6 & 4.4.1-3
If a skipper BEFORE an event wishes to change the trim of their boat by the alteration of ballast I do not see a problem with this at all PROVIDING that the Class Rules as above are still observed.
"4.4.2 All ballast shall be located within the interior of the hull. Ballast shall be fixed in place and shall not be removable
4.4.3 Corrector of trim ballast, shall meet the requirements of paragraph 4.4.2"
With due respect "(I am not talking about waterline length here as we are moving to an exclusive weight based rule only)" it would appear that Australia is the only country considering moving or having moved to " an exclusive weight based rule", ALL others retaining & are comfortable with the status quo ie waterline measurement LWL.
My understanding of ballast moulds available (x USA) is that they are excellent when used for the pouring of ballast being fixed into the "international" hull as built in the USA, NZ & elsewhere and soon to be Australia.

My regards to all in the land of kangaroos

ROD LIDDY       


 
 

[straw]

Thanks for that info Rod. Discussion on this aspect of the rules was something that I had not intended to get involved with at this point in time and although this is my position at this current moment, it nevertheless is a subject that I had every intention of entering into discussion with my counterparts about in due course.. Although I do not intend to enter into a debate on this matter on these pages, it definitely will be on my agenda for discussion with people such as your good self, Rick West and others simply because of my hope and intention to drive these points home in respect of what will affect the path, and possibly hinder the class in its passage to true international status in the long term.

I believe I have a persuasive argument to put about this aspect of the class rules and I am all about getting the class out of the 19th century and into the present here and now in the way that the rules can be improved and modernized and making the class less clumsy and difficult to measure and standardize. This would have obvious benefits for check measurement purposes at regattas etc and a number of other issues that I will be happy to discuss with you in due course if you would be interested in discussion of that kind.

 Even though I indicated that I would not enter into debate on here over this aspect of our class, as food for thought I would leave you with this thought (and take from it what you will) and that is that at the last 4 major regattas that I have attended including recent NZ champs and the last Morgan Black, my boat, nor any other competitor's boat to my knowledge was check measured to confirm that they complied with relevant measurement rules. In short I could have been doing whatever I liked to my boat, ballast-wize, and not a soul would have been aware of it. Waterline check measurement does not work and must go as the principal methodology of standardizing and measuring our boats.

Thanks again for the kind sentiments and well wishes and hope to see you again next year in Christchuch. I hope to speak to you before that meeting however.


Straw

[ROD LIDDY]

Hi Peter, I also have never a seen a boat spot checked at an event for compliance of any relevant Class Rule measurement.
 However on most if not all Notice of Race notifications in NZ and I would assume elsewhere mention is made that at the Race Committee's/OOD's discretion random remeasurements may be undertaken.
All competitors also at these events have the right to protest a boat and request of the Race Committee/Protest Committee that a measurement process be undertaken to ensure compliance.
Waterline measurements in NZ are required to be VERY clearly marked and visible to all and in most instances that I have seen these are. Therefore at a glance one is basically able to tell if a fellow competitors boat is compliant, if in doubt the option is there for a protest.
Look forward to maybe catching up in Christchurch in March 2011 for the NZ EC12 National Championships for which planning and preparation is well underway ensuring that the best ever event will take place. Already the indications for these Nationals is that they will be very well supported with several boats currently being ressurrected/refurbished/replaced.
 Will no doubt talk prior to this.

ROD LIDDY       

[ec12nz]

A couple of thoughts re weight vs waterline measurement.

As Peter and I saw in the US last year "most" of the US boats are running the same ballast setup i.e. the new one I have the plug coming for.

If "most" people take up this ballast shape for the new mould hull shape waterline almost becomes moot as the boats will all weigh within a few grams of each other and percentage wise this is negligable compared to variances in skippers abilities and setups.

I think the weight measurement has merit as you do now in AUS as it makes a quick and easy method of checking at major events.If the new ballast is used at the recommended weight of 18lbs the waterline length will still be within the current measured length as we use in NZ and US. Some boats are at the longer end due to other variables in the build and setup whist others are at the short end. Whether a skipper chooses to float bow high, bow down or neutral will make no difference when boats weigh almost the same.

As to checking at events. I have seen basic checks carried out at the AUS nationals I attended in Brisbane a couple for years back where every boat was checked by sight for all the correct measurement bands on masts and that sails were also compliant.  Over here we have our approved list of sail manufacturers that are automatically accepted as correct as well which makes measurer's job one step easier.

Here in NZ all boats entering the nationals are required to have a re-measure less than 2 months prior to the event - again this negates the need for re-check at the event and saves a major amount of time. Generally we know each others boats as well and anything obvious as to changes is soon noticed and commented on. The waterline marks are visible to all when boats are in the water and I have never been able to notice one obviously floating outside these marks.  As Rod says - protest is always available.

[Viking]

G'day Peter,
               With regard to the new Ballast that Chris is obtaining, how much difference is there between that and the current configuration you are placing in the Qld boats?

Regards,

Bob S.

[straw]

Bob, until I get to hear from Chris and discuss the detail and thought behind the Kiwi's decision to go down this particular path as far as the ballast aspects of the yachts are concerned, I will not be able to comment at this time. I believe that this aspect of the make up of the boats and the way that we shall measure them etc will be key to our final decision. For the record I personally believe that this aspect of the build of the boats is fundamentally important to the way of going of the boat. Our own experimentation with  revamping of older Mini Mariner hulls by modifying the shape and installation of ballast has resulted in a revolutionization of the performance of these boats. The recent QLD state title was won by a Mini Mariner hull which I believe has completely dispelled the myth of Sorenson hulls being superior in every respect to other manufacturer's boats. Time will tell in respect of this matter.

Straw

[Viking]

G'day Peter,
                Thanks for that, I agree and support your position on this matter. It is clearly evident that the new lead configuration being used in the Qld boats is working as I indicated in another post (fast up wind, turn on a dime etc).

     My interest is sharing this information and prompting all skippers in the Southern States to make contact with you and perhaps promote them to experiement as you had done. I have a Plan of a similar lead configuration and will circulate as soon as I can find it.

Thanks again,

Bob S.

[straw]

Bob, don't bother with trying to find the plan. I already have a silicone copy of the exact dimension of the lead we are using in the non Sorenson hulls. Leigh Grove has already borrowed it from me for his purposes and although he and others in NSW have not opted to join the new association, he and whoever he may have shared it with have had the benefit of our work up here as an attempt by me to get the whole existing fleet up to par. It may be that a phone call to him may result in you finding that he has already creted a mould of my template and that he would be happy to help you cast a new ballast for your boat. Alternatively my offer to you to call on me here in Buderim still stands when next you are up this way.We have but a short time between now and when the Yanks and Kiwis descend upon us on these shores in 2012 to attend the proposed Australian EC12 Asssociation sponsored "Morgan Black" championship.

All this work and effort is going into development of our Association EC12 fleet in order to improve the general standard of our sailors and our boats. It is with some regret that I inform you that NSW has faded lately to the extent that it appears that there will be no NSW EC12 state title raced for this year and we are now working on clubs outside the Sydney metropolitan area to take over the premiere locations where future EC12 major events will be held in that state.

You as a bona fide member of the association, have absolute access to any innovative work that we are coming up with all the time. You have only to but ask and the help and info will be there.

Straw

[straw]

Good evening gents. Just a short note to bring you all up to date on current status of our new association and its pursuits. Additionally a few comments about the upcoming NSW EC12 state title.

I had hoped to be able to attend this regatta but regretably will not be able to make it this year due to pressing events here at home. May I say how delighted I am to see that this event will be going ahead. It is with great pleasure that I see the positive effort being undertaken by the EC12 fraternity of Sydney and it is commendable that there is resurgance stirring down there. I would like to wish all entrants a successful and enjoyable regatta and say how indebted the class is to the good people at the Kogarah club and also Owen Jarvis (NSWRYA) for supporting the event.

Also you all may be aware that we have had generous financial support from numerous members of the Association and shortly the secretary will be issuing copies of our incorporation documentation and additional information that is deemed relevant for member consumption.

I also would like to acknowledge the generous financial donation that has been made to the association from QRYA who have indicated their support for what we are doing with the procurement of new moulds and is a great testimony on their part in my opinion, for the general fostering of radio sailing in this state. The association thanks Ian Ashe and David Black for their personal support in this matter.Things are coming along very nicely indeed and I am encouraged to see these developments transpiring with our class. I will post again soon.